Curse

Ferret · Mar 07, 2007, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Again a PvP event has a permanent effect on PvE

Please stop hammering the mesmer skills...i thought you wanted to improve them?

Draikin · Mar 07, 2007, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

[*]Capturing and holding any or all shrines on the map now contributes to your morale. The center shrine now grants twice the amount of positive “pip” arrows on the morale meter than other capture points. The secondary benefits associated with these shrines will remain unchanged.

This doesn't stop the holding builds, it makes them even stronger. This solution would work if the holding builds were holding *only* the center, but this is not the case. They usually have 3 characters spamming spirits at the center and an assassin running around capping the shrines. What you've done now is make them stronger, the extra shrines the assassin is capping will only make them win faster. Sure, maybe now I could make a 3 Mo/A build + Rt/A and control three heroes at once who do nothing but run around and teleport all over the map. Sounds like fun. The real problem is the fact that you only need to hold shrines to win, which will always encourage a defensive build since you don't need to kill to win. If you want this to work just include the TA/RA maps into rotation so running/holding builds are at a disadvantage.

As for the other changes: the SP/BoA assassins still need a real nerf imo, I don't think the SP/BoS nerf is going to change anything. Like most people already said discord was nerfed in the wrong way but the changes for ritualists are good. I do hope to see more of these smaller updates in the future instead of the previously huge skill updates.

Terra Xin · Mar 07, 2007, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Ritualist

The following skills have changed:
Gaze from Beyond: increased casting time to 2 seconds.
Spirit Burn: increased recharge time to 8 seconds.
Lamentation: increased casting time to 1 second; reduced damage to 15..75.
When these skills were first implemented, they required the caster to be very close to a Spirit in order to use them effectively. We recently changed all such skills to work at a much greater distance, though they became too powerful. Our intention is for these skills to remain effective but not be out of scope with other damage-dealing options.

Ohhh you suck... Not 'you' Gaile, but the person who made the balance changes...

I've been using a build that uses a combination of those skills since factions first came out, I was doing very well then, and 'now' its overpowered? What really pisses me off is that it took a lame-ass build like the following, to nerf these skills;

Wanderlust
Pain
Painful Bond
Spirit Burn
Lamentation
Gaze From Beyond

^ - whoever invented this build is an idiot, but I should thank the person, because had that one discovered that channelling outpowers communing in terms of damage, alot more skills could have been nerfed.

I'll get over it in like a week, in the mean-time... Anet you suck!!!

Wildi · Mar 07, 2007, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

[dev] update skill balances

[dev] update pvp balances

anet I fixed it for you

Kabale · Mar 07, 2007, 01:53 PM // 13:53

The change to Discord is really bad. And there is no nerf to Burst of Aggression.

At least some skills were nerfed

djbartek · Mar 07, 2007, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Oranos

In case the devs haven't seen any discussion on the skills:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10125730 -Many dagger attack issues, ie, no one uses them, buffing golden attacks, etc. Making leads useful, etc etc.

People have talked about AoD being inferior, and it still is comparing the cost of both of the combo styles involved with hexed and enchanted.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10115432
Honestly, I think BoA made the Shadow sin overpowered, not the hex.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10119903 -Another discussion on a skill that was "nerfed". Pats idea seemed to balance out the damage, while keeping the skill worth taking on a primary. This only saw play as a gimmick, I doubt it will see use again with a 2 second cast time. Its like putting a 2 second cast time on Searing Flames.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10125403 -Another skill discussed. In two threads. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10127114

Repeated again so Gaile or Izzy won't miss it

I would like also to point out good Patccmoi post, where he proposes needed changes to sin elites:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=58

As for SP: it's obvious for me that this was done for W/A, and big TY AN for that. Maybe this will severe overusing this skill by warriors(they shouldn't be able to use shadowsteps as effectively as sins).

Lynnrose · Mar 07, 2007, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Thanks for the update, but you forgot some major problems. Jade Isle and BoA still unchanged? Unbelievable!

bungusmaximus · Mar 07, 2007, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Big ARGH at what they did to discord, but probably necessary. Too bad I found good uses for it in PvE paired with mark of rodgort

. If it was me i would have changed the recharge but it's still a nasty spike then, especially if combined with a SP sin.

I like what they did to SP, especially after getting owned by a warrior using it in TA. like, hello, i just ignore the rest of your team and bash you over the head with no drawbacks. Some people say that they should nerf BOA instead, but there are more warrior stances and you can't nerf all of those IMO.

Bastian · Mar 07, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Then decrease the unconditional and increase the conditional damage - 1 sec on this spell makes it totally unusable. It is just as conditional as an interrupt spell - how exactly are you supposed to that with a 1 sec spell?

You do realize what the mesmer's primary attribute is?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

This doesn't stop the holding builds, it makes them even stronger. This solution would work if the holding builds were holding *only* the center, but this is not the case. They usually have 3 characters spamming spirits at the center and an assassin running around capping the shrines. What you've done now is make them stronger, the extra shrines the assassin is capping will only make them win faster. Sure, maybe now I could make a 3 Mo/A build + Rt/A and control three heroes at once who do nothing but run around and teleport all over the map. Sounds like fun. The real problem is the fact that you only need to hold shrines to win, which will always encourage a defensive build since you don't need to kill to win. If you want this to work just include the TA/RA maps into rotation so running/holding builds are at a disadvantage.

Wrong. Think about it. If you have an assassin that has capped the center shrine they get 2 pips for morale boost. If you hold the other 3 then you get 3 pips. An assassin is not going to be able to cap all 3 other points because my team of 4 will be pwning his ass - thereby netting me points for kill on the assassin for the time it took me to cap the points. Now I have greater kills and 3 pips of morale vs 2 pips. GG me. I would suggest bringing speed buffs and snares however.

tacitus · Mar 07, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

The changes to discord and the rit skills are good in my opinion not perfect in the way they were done but at least changes have bene made.

I would have loved to see changes come to HA as well as/rather to hero battles

Mysterial · Mar 07, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

This doesn't stop the holding builds, it makes them even stronger. This solution would work if the holding builds were holding *only* the center, but this is not the case. They usually have 3 characters spamming spirits at the center and an assassin running around capping the shrines. What you've done now is make them stronger, the extra shrines the assassin is capping will only make them win faster.

If you can't beat down a single assassin with four heroes, you wouldn't win even if there were no shrines.

The change really will break holding builds, but unless they also significantly reduced the morale speed to offset the additional pips it'll just switch to a gimmick of running four characters with teleports and micromanaging.

Juicey Shake · Mar 07, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

If you can't beat down a single assassin with four heroes, you wouldn't win even if there were no shrines.

The change really will break holding builds, but unless they also significantly reduced the morale speed to offset the additional pips it'll just switch to a gimmick of running four characters with teleports and micromanaging.

apparently you have not heard of the skill shadow meld

LightningHell · Mar 07, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicey Shake

apparently you have not heard of the skill shadow meld

Somebody uses Shadow Meld?

=O

zwei2stein · Mar 07, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

At least one thing anet got right ...

makes changes AND explain why they were made.

Red · Mar 07, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

At least one thing anet got right ... makes changes AND explain why they were made.

Wholeheartedly agree. Giving at least minimal reasoning is key. Thanks for that, and for the attempt to fix hero battles. It was so annoying to constantly face the human assassin + monk + Olias N/Rt and Master/Razah holding the only shrine that mattered. Hopefully, if absolutely nothing else, this will encourage a little more diversification or builds.

Just echoing a few comments here:

-) BLADES OF STEEL: Assuming three other attack skills and 13/14 Dagger Mastery, BoA sins have been running Blades of Steel at +60 for some time now. The only nerf here is assassins running 15 Dagger Mastery, who will strike for 10 less than before (remember that dual attacks hit twice!). Those of us running minor runes aren't nerfed at all.

-) DISCORD: .... well... at least we won't have to face HeroWAY Discord spike again. :x

-) SHADOW PRISON: I guess it hurts Eurospike and its variants--rather, any Warrior using SP - Dismember - Critical/Executioners--though warriors have taken Shock for a long time now, which effectively costs 10 energy (exhaustion!) anyway, right? I'm interested to see WHAT it does.... though, like Blades of Steel, this nerf does NOTHING to BoA sins, except -possibly- force them to lead off with Black Lotus Strike or take another rune of attunement? :x

-) HERO BATTLES: Just wanted to mention again how much I personally appreciate the effort to spice these up again. (heart)

Draikin · Mar 07, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastian

An assassin is not going to be able to cap all 3 other points because my team of 4 will be pwning his ass

Recall, shadow of haste, shadow meld,... You run to one shrine to pwn the assassin and when you get there he teleports back to the center and heads for another shrine. You cap one shrine, he's capping the center and another shrine. What do you do?

Bastian · Mar 07, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

Recall, shadow of haste, shadow meld,... You run to one shrine to pwn the assassin and when you get there he teleports back to the center and heads for another shrine. You cap one shrine, he's capping the center and another shrine. What do you do?

Realize that his build is crap and can't do damage because he decided to bring all teleport skills....

Then split...

Choc · Mar 07, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Good work on the Rit and Discord nerfs, it was definately needed. However, I cannot understand for the life of me why ANET didn't hit the BoA Assassins where it would hurt! The BoA skill, the BoA skill! Come on guys, simply change the duration to 0..9 based on your Strength attribute.

Bread Fan · Mar 07, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

.....WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET INFORMATION ON HA????????????????? ITS A WEEK OVER DUE. (even though we have been waiting months)

Draikin · Mar 07, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastian

Realize that his build is crap and can't do damage because he decided to bring all teleport skills....

It may be crap in any other PvP format, but here he's winning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastian

Then split...

A few observations:
- player assassin >> heroes
- player assassin >>>>> moving heroes (they don't use skills while running, easy target)
- center morale boost > all other shrines -> he only needs to cap the center and one other shrine to win.